Erkan's field diary

Hogwash! Even the worst atrocities committed by Arab muslims against Christians in the early stages of their invasions pale in comparison to the butcheries commited by Muslim Turks. Turks bloodless? What are yiou smoking you poor soul? One thing you say is true. Your "lack of information" has led to a corrupt and blinded population. But that is the case with most of the Muslim world.

In an essentialism of grand scale, he declares that both Russians and Turks are always excluded from the political union plans that were devised. That's the original and truthful skin of Europe (237)

It's their club, they can set the rules. And why should they be faulted for that ? It is their right, isn't it ?

If Turkey wants to join this club it has to conform to its rules. What can be simpler to understand than that ? What is more ridiculous than a policy of hostility against Europe because they hesitate or refuse to accept Turkey ?

"Turks have always been in relation with Europe."!?
Falsification! The last 1000 years! Before that they were in their homeland somewhere in the Altaic region, with no history!

The word relation used above is a euphemism! Turks have been loathed by everyone (except the jews) they came in contact with!
Even the most optimistic turks know that Turkey will never make it to EU.

Today Turkey anounced that they will not be a part of the International Criminal Court! A spokesman added that the EU does not demand that Turkey will abide to International treaties.

How do you get civilized?

i just published an anonymous commenter in order to demonstrate the level of argumentation. unfortunately more and more people are at that level...

Erkan! You confuse argumentation with facts!

I simply stated a few well known facts!

Here follows some Argumentation!

No history book or annal about the Turks is written in either Turkish or Greek or Arabic before 1000AD! So you have no history according to the definition of the word History!
The first Turks appeared in Minor Asia about 1000 years ago and they did come from some region of the Altaic...

It is a simple fact and if you want to become a scientist the Truth should no bother you.

Although you are desperately trying to change the face of your ancestors the atrociries committed by Turks not only at war time but even at peace are well documented. They are paradigms of extreme barbarity. Noone in Europe ever questioned that! To such a degree that the word Turk became synonymous to cruel, filthy, lazy, degenerate! You can easily prove that by looking up the word Turk in previous non-sanitized Dictionaries.

Check even the Turkish words that found their way into European languages through descriptions of the Turkish culture! I know of two related to "Culture"!
1)Jannisary (how turkish to take the children from christian families at a tender age and turn them to fanatic muslim warriors who could eventually butcher their own families) and
2) odalisque (from the turkish oda=room)

The cultural production of the Turkish empire is NIL!
No philosopher, no Mathematician, no scientist, no artist during 500 years! But atrocities against christians and even against muslims. Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, Slavs, Arabs and even now Kurds.

That establishes the fact that you are loathed by all you came in contact with.

If Turkey, (a large muslim, poor country) enters EU that will signal the end of a political Union. EU knows that and you know that. So my statement about "even the most optimistic...." is very plausible! It might be that some privileged Turks who never left Europe extrapolate to the asiatic Turkey. This lack of information or wishful thinking that you can change the turkish mindset is refuted by the policies pursued by your government and the majority of the Turkish people. Kill the priests, kill the Kurds, threat Greece, occupy Cyprus. And poor Turkish women, Turkish homosexuals, Turkish children,.....

Going to a University is a Western thing! The glorious Greeks, that you hate so much, established the rules. Critical thinking, argumentation based on reason, observation, experiment, theories through induction and deduction!

I once had a Turkish colleague in USA who disclosed to me that he thought that the Turks had succeeded the Hittites whom he called Proto-Turks. I told him to borrow some books from the local library. He admitted that he had been manipulated by his education in Turkey. He was already Ph.D. from Turkey.

I hope that your education is better than his! But if you confuse Facts (what I simply stated) with Argumentation then you better read your Aristotle and PLato.

well, with an angry and biased person there cannot be any productive discussion. so i won't keep up much but let say that by argumentation I meant the juxtaposition of some facts in a way that will produce a particular resolution. "facts" themselves are sort of problematic here but in addition to that one can easily find other "facts" that would resolve in a different resolution.
Do I really look like dumbed by a particular national education system?

dear anonymous,

i see that while accusing erkan, you are also confusing 'objective facts' with 'historical facts'. i understand that your orientation of european history is one sided. there is a massive amount of books on european history and there is a massive amount of critical books that you have omitted in your readings. it is highly dangerous to consider 'historical facts', which can easily be confused with mythologies, with clear-cut boundaries, as you do in your comments. i suggest you to read some more critical books on writing history, and also on european history.

Robert Young's book on White Mythologies: Writing History and the West can be helpful on seeing the difference between historical facts and mythologies. and on european history, i suggest you Martin Bernal's Black Athena, Delanty's Inventing Europe or Norman Davies' Europe East and West.

i do not want to go any deeper in criticising your comments, because i see that we will not be able to make any productive discussions here, because you seem to have so much anger in your comments. i really hope that you will consider reading these books and be more critical about what you know, read and learn.

regards

Dear muzi! Martin Bernal is one in a long series of History falsifiers empoyed by Turks, Jews, and many other who need some History! It was very funny that when Bernal was publishing his second volume on the Archaeological evidence, Bietak made archaeological excavations that proved that the influence went the other direction. Bernal's friend Berlineblau admitted that the experts gathered and discussed Bernal's wild theories in "Black Athena Revisited" pulverized everything he had claimed.

How can a person invoke a book and forget the eraser of the book? Only if he is a failure or he has simply heard some propaganda and never examined!

So, Turk! Make your homework! Read your Aristotle, Plato and the other Glorious Greeks (as we educated EUropeans have done for almost 1000 years) before you claim you have joined the Western Civilization! Until then you are considered by practically all Europeans as .... yes, just a Turk! A poor muslim, destitute beggar, that knocks at our door with blood-stained boots and hands dripping of Kurdish blood!

Where does the same anonymous come off with such arrogance?

Erkan is right, one cannot expect any sensible dialogue with someone who is so full of hate. We all are familiar with Aristotle and Plato and I don't see what the same anonymous has anything to do with them, ethically or ethnically.

I'd like to draw attention to one fact, less than 20% of today's Turks' DNA can be tied to central Asia. The majority of Turks today are natives of Anatolia, whom many times in history were butchered and made to change their culture and language by invading Greek colonizers first and later by others. The world learnt about genocide from Greeks, starting with Troy. We, Turks today, majority of us are direct descendants of the ancient Anatolians; we can teach a thing or two to Greeks about civilization.

hahaha.. anonymous, i knew that you would be furious about Black Athena. all i am saying is, read some books outside the Greek curricula. you will see that there is a different world out there, which is different from what you were taught of...

and by the way, i am sorry to tell you that all these books that i have suggested you to read, are in the curricula of British universities. if you look at the reading lists suggested from the social sciences departments of the UK universities, you will notice that they all suggest these critical readings, which is far away from your views.

but i am warning you, if you do this, you will not like what you see. you will see that all Europe does not think like you. so, be careful when you are generalising your views. generalising is a sin in social sciences, you should know that.

have a nice day...

Dear Mitat!

The Kurds are indigenous! The Turks are invaders from Central Asia. The Genetics has not advanced that far to undestand the appearance and development of traits, ...etc. It is obvious that some "turks" are genetically non-mongolian! After all the janissaries were christians, serbs, greeks, bulgarians, etc.
They were of far superior genetic stock than that of your mongol ancestors. Have you seen depictions of Turks? The same as Huns!

But the turkish mindset that of the wolf and the pack, remains the same.

The rest of your input is mere nonsense!

Greeks and genocides and atrocities? You must be on drugs! This is stuff of the Asian fanatics. And the most malignant sort of Asian barbarity is that of the Turks!

Now! Dismount your goat, beat your wife, sell your child's organs and buy some bathing suit (your government receives some subsidy from EU for you to bathe in bathing suits instead of your filthy underware) to swim and drown in Bosporous!

Muzi! I proved to you that you are simply a mere propagandist. Bernal promised 4 volumes! After his second the real experts pulverized him. He thought that Postmodernistic Ideas would finally prevail!
Imagine! There is no History, just stories!!

But what happened was exactly the opposite. He, Lacan, Kristeva, Derrida, and some others unleashed a war (have you ever heard of the science wars?) that reduced the Postmodernistc scourge to a mere load of shit suitable fodder for Turkish intellectual and other intellectual midgets of your type!

In the mean time you simply knock at EU's door as the destitute beggar you are. The Turks who made it to EU, clean our toilets (if they are honest people) or sell drugs, sell their children to pederasts...
You will not make it!

Get your Midnight Express treatment and feel proud!

As a scholar studying Turkey-EU relations, I can posit that the EU will beg to Turkey as they need Turkey much more than Turkey needs the EU, in the near future.
A reminder to the fanatics squirming with the Turk hatred: Ottoman was the unique power of the world for several centuries; therefore she could have done whatever she desired.
If Turks had lacked of human values there would have been no Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians on the entire Balkan Peninsula and Aegean Islands now.
I am inviting you to a very basic logic. If you still exist and you are able to write above very provocative and rude comments against Turks, it thanks to the highest human values of our Ancestors.
Full stop.