Nothing happens except the Dutch loses…

Turkey say NO to Wilders

from Internation Musing: Istanbul, Athens, Amsterdam, Patra, Utrecht, by Internation Musing

Turkey has announced that a Dutch parliamentary delegation will not be welcome if it includes Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders. Turkish ministers and MPs will refuse to meet the entire delegation if Wilders is among them. A spokesperson for the Turkish foreign ministry says: ?This man has racist ideas. We fear his presence would overshadow the visit?. The popular Turkish daily Aksam was the first to report the news on yesterday: ?Tension over Mozart?, the paper?s headline read, apparently referring to the Freedom Party leader?s exotic hairdo.
Turkish government is embarrassed by the situation and already felt in the trap of Wilders in my opinion They realize that refusing to meet Wilders will allow the controversial politician to accuse Turkey of being undemocratic and unable to take criticism. However, the government fears a media hype would stir up the emotions of its Islamist supporters. Islamists many secularists in Turkey and Wilders are fighting against, how ironically?

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  • ”Nothing happens only the Dutch loose”
    Quite the opposite Erkan. First: Wilders can go to every country. Second: Wilders is never convicted to be a racist or fascist and I can assure you, laws in the Netherlands regarding racism are tough, 10 times tougher than in Turkey where racism is institutionalized: Jews, Christians and Armenians are not allowed to serve as civil servant…not even to be a council member while in the Netherlands we have arıound 800 people who are born in Turkey and serve as council member, MP’s and even our own minister of Justice is born in Sirt! And are the MHP and CHP not rascistic even in your parliament?!!!
    If you don’t allow Wilders, that means that Erdogan doesnt want people who criticize Islam, only people who can call Jews and Christians Pigs and Apes as you can see daily on Memri TV.
    If Erdogan refuse a visa to an elected member of the Dutch parliament who’s never convicted for any crime, that Merkel and Sarkozy must be refused as well. Read the French, German newspapers. And I just heard from a Finnish friend that even in Sweden and Finland they are following these developments. Again, by a refusal you will loose the Netherlands as a partner and probably around5 – 10 other countries and then is EU membership really over. And a country without any natural resources…this will be very uncetain for TR future. And remember that the Dutch has diplomatic relations wth TR for 400 years and is the second largest investor in TR. The heading better could be: Turkey have a lot to loose.
    Needless to say that I vote for a Dutch party who is Wilders strongest opponent. Again, this will show if TR is prevailing islam above democracy/civil rights/human rights and more where europe stands for.
    kindest

  • Dear Hans,I am writing with the confidence that I register human rights in Turkey as many as possible in this blog. There is no need to think that TR and Dutch relations will collapse because of that man. I think a country has a right not to issue visa to a person who is explicitly hostile to herself. Hmmm, as far as I remember Hitler was elected, too. There are more and more political personalities emerging in Europe who are quite vocally racistic, xenophobic, or islamophobic. While Turks and Muslims must do some real cleaning in the backyards, Europeans should start thinking about that, too. And of course, Hans you have given up exploring any positive signs here in Turkey and acting more and more like a colonialist/orientalist… It is a pity for such a clever and kind man like you…

  • I don’t think Dutch-Turkish relations or even European-Dutch relations will suffer on a longer term if Turkey refuses entry to mr. Wilders.
    However it would be wise to let him in for three reasons:
    1. The damage done by not letting him in is far bigger than by welcoming him and ignoring him. Wilders knows exactly how to handle this refusal to his own advantage. Refusing mr. Wilders is acting along HIS scenario. He will have all the media attention, just like a spoilt child. It will make him more popular and Turkey less popular.
    2. Wilders is a democratically elected member of parliament. Indeed Hitler was too, but he was already a well organized militant power when he was elected. The case of Germany in the 30s was quite different and – in this case – not really comparable to present day Europe. And there are more democratically elected mp’s in many European countries, including Turkey, whom we wouldn’t like to receive for their despicable ideas. Where would you draw the line? Democracy is about taking risks a.o.
    3. As for Turkey, mr. Wilders’ ideas don’t differ very much from some Kemalists’ ideas in Turkey. Now should the Netherlands refuse entry to a Turkish parliamentary delegation because of the ideas of one member?

    Generally i think Turks should be wise enough to counter anything mr. Wilders says. That is by far the best way to deal with firebrands like him.

    Having said that, i could imagine mr. Erdogan wouldn’t want to speak to mr. Wilders, as mr. W. has called him a “dangerous man” amongst others. But even then it would be wiser to confront the gentleman. What would be easier diplomatically to state: “We have listened to mr. Wilders and discussed his arguments but he failed to convince us, as we feel free to consider the vast majority of his arguments to be nonsense and unworkable, in the mean time respecting those who do agree with mr. Wilders. Matter closed.”

    Bertus

    • Thank you Bertus! All points I agree. Thank you for the contribution.

  • Erkan wrote: and acting more and more like a colonialist/orientalist? It is a pity for such a clever and kind man like you.
    ———————————————————
    Sorry Erkan, but İ don’t see the logic of your thoughts. In fact, what Bertus wrote down here is written down by me on Internations, other words, some thoughts. And then pushing and putting me in the corner because I lost trust in Turkish politics, makes no sense; calling me a colonialist and imperialist is more than insulting.
    It’s obvious, you already felt in Wilders his trap. I expected more from you than a personal dogfight here.
    And how many European MP’s will be barred from entry in Turkey while at the same time the Turkish opposition parties as the CHP and MHP are using racistic and fascitoide languages to convey their messages? Please report about that instead of calling me names. Really disappointing answer from an anthropologist and PR expert. The later is of course…
    Cherio

  • Hans, I am sorry. Now I feel bad. really bad. I wouldn’t want to mean like that. Bertus’ contribution made me embarrassed, another mental note for not writing angrily. I and you have similar ways of writings though. What you write is sometimes (in fact, most of the times) lost in your harsh discourse. Don’t you get too many angry comments already (although most of them are baseless)? And although I am really sorry with the way I portrayed and I am determined not to do that again, I still believe you are as harsh as I am when it comes to Turks and Muslims. Anyway, in the last analysis, my mistake, I am really, really sorry…

  • No my friend, you don’t get away with this..) You know how I look and think about Wilders.
    That I am harsh and direct means also that I am honest, you know that. Turkish people in general tend to look for the soft way out but in the meanwhile critizicing everybody.
    I just finished my talk with a Dutch Turkish forum…if you hear what I said you wouşld not use the cheap words Imperialist and Colonialist.)
    Get used to some direct EU languages, the TR smooth talk times are over.))) otherwise, join the junta..)))

  • Come on gentlemen! Have a beer together. The internet spoils more than one would love to.

    Use your skills to think without national bounderies. What can we do about people like mr. Wilders? They do represent an electorate. Usually the people who are not interested in politics or regard politics as something criminal (they steal your money and squander it, they always lie, they use their intelligence to enrich themselves and make themselves powerfull, they call this a democracy but you are allowed to say anything, they don’t listen to you) and they seek revenge for the fact that they themselves have no brains, usually in simple but rigourous solutions (and indeed Erkan, we have seen that in the Third Reich, but it is still everywhere). This electorate is not conservative. They just want revenge for their own shortcomings.
    And they are an easy bunch for populists like Wilders. He tells his electorate it is not their fault, it is the fault of the “élite” and (as he puts it): “the leftwing church”. Meaning any person who doesn’t agree with Wilders.
    There are Wilderses everywhere in Europe, in parliaments and even in governments. How should we handle that in Europe (including Turkey)? Think about that without being provincial or colonial.

    Cheers to both of you!

    Bertus

  • Bertus….you know what …))) < that means?.))

    I bought the documentairy 'the Nazis, a warning from History'…
    6 hours long. Comsulsory stuff for everyone, Wilders etc. and Turkey too where Mein Kampf and other disgusting books are popular…(all kind of books about Jews and gloryfying militairisme
    cheers, will have pizza for breakfast.)

  • Yes i do know what ))) means. But you never know, an extra beer would always do.

    I didn’t see that documentary and i think i don’t want to. The season is gloomy enough without it. But while i was in Zambia last year i read Stefan Zweig’s autobiography. Author, Austrian, European, intellectual and jew. He tells about WWI and the interbellum and it really made me shiver. The same when i read Sebastian Haffner’s memoires of the German interbellum.
    But we don’t even have to look that far: look at what happened in Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi, Afghanistan. Look what is happening in a country like Pakistan. And to stay a bit more at home: look at Switzerland…the real Swiss democrats have a lot to do now….I wish them good luck.

    Bertus

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